The Me Inc Podcast
A series of inspiring conversations with individuals fully embracing this experience called life. Listen to gain insights and perspectives into how you can lead a happier and more fulfilled life while exploring emotional intelligence to navigate the challenges and opportunities that come your way with greater ease and resilience.
The Me Inc Podcast
Episode #1 - Intriguing Insights from Andrew Codd's Diverse Career Path
Discover the inspiring journey of Andrew Codd, the President of AVF Worldwide. Andrew generously shares his insights on transitioning from sales to entrepreneurship, the importance of mentorship, and striking a balance between his career and personal life. He discusses his unique philosophy of integrating an 'ecology of activities' that resonates together and his personal experiences of achieving work-life equilibrium.
Get ready to be intrigued by Andrew's approach to maintaining his fitness regime and its significant impact on his life. His insights on getting back into shape, adopting a healthier lifestyle, and the mental clarity that accompanies physical fitness are truly enlightening. He also shares his thoughts on taking risks, his EQI assessment, and how engaging conversations with people can provide insightful perspectives.
We discuss the importance of taking the first step even if you are unsure of your path, the role of support systems in preventing burnout, and how creating the right environment is pivotal for growth. Tune in to this captivating conversation where we discuss Andrew's optimistic outlook and the power of positive self-talk.
Connect with Andrew at andrew@avfww.com or via LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewcodd/
Check out Andrew's podcast at Home - #SITN Strength In The Numbers (sitnshow.com)
You need to have the right environments to match strengths or adjust the environment or the type of things you're looking to achieve to align with the capabilities of what's there as well. I think there's probably better analogies out of it, but you can't get elephants to climb trees and things like that I love that one.
Speaker 2:You are and will always be your most valuable asset. Welcome to the MeeYank podcast a series of conversations with individuals living happy, healthy and engaged lives, while exploring the importance of emotional intelligence to thrive in this ever-changing world. My name is Nigel Franklin, a CPA MBA and a certified emotional intelligence coach. My mission and passion is to enable others to be that best version of themselves by understanding the importance of making investments in their physical, mental and spiritual well-being. Let's start the show. So for our first conversation, we have Andrew Codd. Andrew is the CEO of AVF Worldwide, the president of Fanatics. He is an award-winning podcaster of the Strength in Numbers show, which is available in more than 170 countries. He's a best-selling author and a failed Navy aviator. That's very, very true. There's got to be some failures in there along the way. Andrew, welcome to the show. Super excited to chat with you, Excited also that you're willing to mentor me on this part of my journey for the audience.
Speaker 2:So the MeeYank concept started from my travels in 2017, as I traveled more internationally and was trying to figure out how I can be my best self and perform at my best level. I think I'd done it for about a year and I just talked about seeing yourself as the most important entity in the world and making investments in your spiritual, mental and physical well-being on a daily basis, to kind of constant view towards your goals, and I had the opportunity not just to present it at the AICPA conference but shortly after to be a guest on Andrew's podcast. I credit you with breeding life into it, because there was value and I appreciated talking about it so much and the energy that we exchanged. I think it was so exciting that I've moved it forward. So here I am, Thank you. Thank you for breeding life into that idea.
Speaker 1:I appreciate you saying that. I suppose that we'd like to thank you for arranging this today and hopefully the audience and those listening in get some value. I hope they do. But what a fantastic concept and you're right, we're great in it. I see that day, yeah, and since we know we've kicked it around a bit and yeah, the time's flown in between.
Speaker 2:It's crazy, yeah, I know, but you know it's interesting, though it's from that conversation and I think they try to live a connected life, but we've connected and helped each other in different ways over that time.
Speaker 1:So it's actually been this nice two-way relationship. Yes, it has. It has been yeah, and I really hope I again, as I said to the audience, you get something from that today as well, because I know we have yeah. So, yeah, curious to see where this goes. It's amazing.
Speaker 2:It's 6.15 am in Cork Ireland, and what was actually pretty cool was we didn't meet until now. So, Tom and I we flew in to have this conversation in person because I figured that would be the right way to get the energy and thank you again for accommodating that because, again, we're in Ireland for what? 12 hours. So tell us who's Andrew.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, good question, nigel. I would say okay, the audience. After the fact that we're in Cork, ireland, that's a rock in the Atlantic Ocean for some people who may be not familiar where it is. We have a great heritage here and it's actually where my journey probably began, because I grew up in Ireland. I've lived in a few different places and spent my career supporting companies and organisations in various parts of the world.
Speaker 1:So from a family perspective, I've four kids, we've got a lovely family set up here, a small holding of land, and it's great to be able to show up, do loads of really cool things around the world in the business world or like the podcasting with the writing even and see my family grow up, and it's one of the coolest things. In the morning I get to see them. Sometimes at lunch dinner there's a bit of travel with the work we do, but that's understandable as well. I really appreciate the times we are together and, as you said earlier, the failed Navy aviator. So during my first in growing up here in Ireland, I did want to. Actually, I was just inspired by the whole Top Gun thing, so I said, yes, that's exactly what I want, I think when I grow up.
Speaker 1:I never thought I'd become an accountant Instead, but before we got accounting.
Speaker 2:accounting is just as exciting, andrew, so let's just there are areas.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did try sale All my uncles were in sales actually and I grew up on the road with them, my weekends and holidays at being out with them on their own selling different products to retailers and so on. And yeah, I could do that but I just was never really drawn to the sales. I really love numbers but seriously, my first love was I just had loads of posters of F 15 Eagles around my bedroom wall and I know they flew Tomcats and Top Gun, but no, I, the F 15 was for me and I was a great aviator on a computer, but just I never really followed up that dream of mine.
Speaker 2:So you never know. You never know. I've only my forties. You never know, you can still get there professionally. Then your podcast is on finance and creating value within finance, but you mind sharing a little bit about your career arc and some of the things that you've done?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I wouldn't regard it as really exciting. But I dabble with the idea of becoming an accountant because I was advised by. I used to play. I used to play the church organ. I remember one of the nuns telling me asked me questions about me and it hadn't quite explained to her about the failed Navy, navy, navy, navy, aviator concepts and I'd actually that's what I really wanted to do. But then she said after a few questions I said I was good at numbers and whatever. She never thought about becoming an accountant. I didn't think that's what would have happened.
Speaker 1:But the cool thing with accounting is I love business. I love understanding how businesses work, what they do well, where they could better, how do the numbers flow? And accounting teaches you the transactions, how they flew through an organization and also the language of business, which revolves around the numbers. And I suppose, with the sales side of the things that I had growing up, I was very good then at the telling stories about the numbers and I just found myself increasingly in front of investors or senior management in these companies. So I just ended up working across loads of industries.
Speaker 1:I felt a bit like the guy, the guy, the robot from short circuit, johnny five for some of your listeners input.
Speaker 1:I just wanted to be exposed to loads of different businesses and learn, so I got to work across loads of different industries and I suppose towards the end of my sort of days working as an employee, I was a gel for a good period of time in the technology sector and working with them on the services side, and I had quite a large business, a unit area responsibility in the many billions, and I've got this opportunity now to become how do you say, hopefully develop a very well known brand of finance software amongst the community as well, because again, with the podcasting and the connections that have come off the back of that, you get to understand, talking to other CFOs, other leaders out there as well, what their challenges are and there's some thinking out there that there's a lot better we could be doing in finance team supporting our organization, supporting the decision making, and that's where I started putting some ideas on paper, getting a group of developers together, developer developers and we came up with the phonetics to complement the services was we provide us at AVF worldwide.
Speaker 1:And it's just a really cool journey Again being able to do this and this rocket and Atlantic Ocean and from Cork, it's like our neighbors our nearest neighbors are cows around here, freezing cows, so it's like there's not that many people around here. It's just cool, it's just really not.
Speaker 2:So where has your career taken you? You said you, and I'm going to come back to how many different things, but I do believe that travel and exposure to different cultures, different people, it does shape us right. It solidifies and approach the world. It solidifies an appreciation and understanding of your journey. So what are some of the places that it's taking you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I suppose the country wise, I suppose most of the time it's been spent, like I guess, in the UK, ireland and the US, so East coast of the States and then across Europe as well. We've had a pleasure working with a number of different management teams, so we got to work with German teams based out of Frankfurt, france, paris, dubai, cairo. Weird enough, unlike yourself, nigel, I've not been to Asia ever, even for vacation. Really, yeah, no, seriously. So that's something I've not done, although my eldest son has moved over to Perth in Australia, so I do hope to get out that way within the next year.
Speaker 1:So, it seems we're having a great time out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's actually so. We just flipped it all the way around, so a lot of the places that you've experienced have not experienced as well. So it's one of those interesting things. I'm hoping to get to those places while you're hoping to get there.
Speaker 1:No, it's like, yeah, it's like track.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, but it's interesting, right, how it's almost like supplementing your, your experiences as you go along. But so you've grown up. I think you an entrepreneur now, right, how do you get? How did you get there? Is it something that you've always been into? Because one of the things that strikes me about you and from our initial conversations, you do a lot of different things. What I wanted to talk about is the mindset to do a lot of things, because, from an accountant's perspective and I apologize to any accountants who are listening think in a very structured manner the most accountants we're used to operating and what happened, not what's happening. I think it's a very different standpoint. Accountants, again, aren't necessarily the population, the largest population of accountants are not entrepreneurs, are not people who will step out and do things. So what's the mindset and how do you, how do you talk about that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would say like I probably would have gone down like when I was at university I did actually, before I even went to university, actually, and I left school. All my friends went off to university and I didn't no, I am stay behind. It wasn't that I was just too cool, it's just really didn't know what I wanted to do. So I just fell back into a sales job and so, yes, I hadn't quite embarked on being an accountant just yet and I set up my own business and as part of that journey I realized I didn't have the skills to run a business. It was profitable, really profitable, and it was based out of London, in England, and they were selling soft drinks and snacks into schools and retailers around there. And I just again the way I was able to interpret the profitability I could source the goods at lower costs and I could be much better connected distributors and undercut them on price. But they were selling a lot of volume, is very busy and I just wasn't very good at delegating and stuff like that. So I didn't have the skills like you'd expect to find in a corporation and I didn't have the understanding to run a business properly, or confidence, for that matter. So then that's when I started to embark on the accounting was. I went to college to learn those skills and then apply them on the summers in various businesses and then started on a career path with that. So I actually did start out as an entrepreneur and now I know more what I'm doing, what's expected of me, but it was a very slow journey. But I guess, like one thing may be, nigel, I'm never really in a rush that way, if that makes sense. I may have a sense of urgency at the time, but if I look at my career, I was never really in a rush to go back to being an entrepreneur. I like the safety of a paycheck. And then, interestingly enough, when Katie, my wife, wanted to move back to Ireland, based our kids there and so on, it was like, okay, it's not really any sort of real jobs at moment. It was around the time of the recession in 08, I think, and I said, look, I'll set up my own business again and do some consulting work. And it worked out really well. It was really lucrative, so I was able to dip back into that at the time and then I saw how to say an opportunity, come up with a Forerunner for Dell called EMC, and then I went to work for them again. It wasn't. It wasn't about the money, because there was a massive pay cut involved with that, but it was just nice to spend time and see my kids go up. So, yes, I was having a career, but I think we've talked about this before this idea of ecology Understanding what things you want out of on a very different scale so it could be your from a learning perspective, or it could be from a career perspective, or family relationships or money perspective, and then understanding how much you value each of those and then aligning what you're doing with those.
Speaker 1:So sometimes in my career was that entrepreneur route. Other times it was to be a salaried employee, which doesn't sound as exciting but it just was. It just suited where we were in our lives at that time. And now I'm at a stage where, yeah, it's something I feel is the right thing to do for what Myself and my family are looking outside the life and have out of life and the things they want. And, yeah, it's working out really well and that's another cool thing. It's like even down to the first sale, right when you start out. I spoke only left corporate life like three weeks and I'd already had the first sale in the new company. And it's just like I had no real plans. It's just, you just fell in, and I think it's because you just developed the connections along the way. So it was just it, just everything just seems to fit in together for us, or?
Speaker 1:maybe it's because we are so focused on having that ecology of putting our time into the right things and making sure we're not surprising one at the behest of another. Yeah, and we might have described it, say, up and down, nigel, like in the past, like you're doing all of these things and it's a bit all over the place. But I think the common thread to a lot of it is trying to find that route back to ecology, the fit of all those Activities, in a way that works. And yeah, there's been sometimes I felt really burned out, no one energy and I've been able to very well course, correct because I've got a good group of people around me, good, good connections, acquaintances, friends and family to keep me grounded and people I can talk to. Yeah, I think that's very key. I think you were the mentor would mention the word mentoring, such an underrated thing. I wish I don't cover that sooner.
Speaker 1:In my career I come across a mentor. Till I was like 25, I would say someone I could call a mentor and that's where the podcast grew up actually was and I was. So I was getting all these questions from people is like, how do you do this and finance, or how would you do that and I really I don't have all the answers. I am the worst person to be asking because I'm trying to figure all this stuff out Right. So I said, why not just? Why not just like I? I'm quite happy to ask people on behalf of others and I'm interested in learning myself, so, like I'll just record all those conversations of people that know stuff more than I do and then I'll put them up online for other people to access. And, by the way, nigel, I actually brought this idea to some of the main accounting institutes out there. They just weren't interested and I just got frustrated with that.
Speaker 1:You've got these amazing networks of finance accounting professionals more better than I have. And then so I just Screw you guys, I'll just go do it myself.
Speaker 2:What's interesting now is that back to the accountants. In the way that we think and behave, it's not a very forward thinking profession.
Speaker 1:That's the thing right.
Speaker 2:So it's not. You don't have to be as innovative as you need to be, and that's one of the fears that I would have Be becoming entrenched in all the ideas because then you don't actually move forward. Yeah, but what you actually just shared, you shared and I'm if I want to make sure I'm following you because I'm excited to Dig deeper into some of it. You talked about starting out from a place where you didn't know what you wanted to do, but you still made forward movement with it. You're able to fall back on on the sales portion of it because that's what you had like. That's where you were.
Speaker 2:You grew up, but as you found your way, you gain capabilities, you gain confidence, and you talked about and I'll get back to you talked about running on all cylinders and getting closer to burnout, sometimes Having a support system, but I think the ecology portion of it I want to. I wanted to make sure we explored a little bit more and one of the times you were speaking, I think you shared that. Um, as part of one of your down times, you have a greenhouse, all right, and I think you tied the idea of the greenhouse Into the ecology and backed it into a way of looking at life. I say these things like how do you remember? That's the exciting part about having those conversations, but the way that you actually talked about it was in a in that way of creating conditions that are conducive to growth.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly right. There's actually a bit story about the this greenhouse or some people like my color the polytunnel. So I went to my brother-in-law and he has one and it's like on a commercial grade and I was like I had no idea the work involved. So, anyway, I went away and ordered it. But one of the cool things I was looking forward to it wasn't quite flying a fighter jet, but was actually driving one of those mini diggers for a few days. So I just cleared my diary and I just had great fun with a mini digger during the, the pandemic to clear a load of earth and it was really good fun. But how do you say so? Yeah, so that was the fun bit of it.
Speaker 1:Putting up this huge structure wasn't as much fun. It's like semi commercial polytunnel. It's 40 foot by 18, so it's quite a big big deal. And then once you put it in, you've got to put the raised beds in. But all the things you need to do inside of that if you think about growing a garden, even if it wasn't like vegetables or fruits or anything like that was you need to provide the right environment for things to be successful.
Speaker 1:And I guess when I started transitioning from being an accountant or maybe a finance leader or business leader. Then it came to me. I felt like I had to like go up a level and just be able to see the full field of play and come up with a strategy and create an environment where we could, as one of my previous mentors said, goes, andrew, you seem to have this in a creating whether he called a performance, execution environment, but what I think he meant by that is, if you think about a greenhouse or a polytunnel and what goes inside, you basically got to make sure that you got good groundwork in there. That one, the polytunnel, is not going to blow away in a wind and we got a lot of wind in Ireland along a lot of gales. I think we had a. It was 100 kilometers the other nights, about 80 mile an hour, 70 mile an hour winds or whatever does a night. So we get a lot of wind, so it needs to have solid foundations, but also that it's going to have to say a structure going forward, some sort of structure around it, and then inside of that you got to look after the soil. And polytunnels or greenhouses, you might have raised beds because they're easier to work on. So you raise it up a bit. So let's stress on the back you need to have the right mix of soil for the right conditions and make sure that it's regularly watered. If you see weeds, 10 to the weeds so that you're not stirbing the growth of the, the plants, the fruits and the vegetables that you've got there. So it's like I didn't really have time to go in and out and so on. As much but um, but anyway. So look, it's uh, it's a but. It's also a nice way of doing downtime and just reminds me of analogy. It's like sometimes I feel like we're gardeners tending to our gardens and again it's about making sure there's good foundations, we're looking after the environment or planting stuff that's appropriate for the environment as well.
Speaker 1:This comes back, maybe, to the idea of people's strengths and weaknesses. Frustrated, I always wondered for years why, when you do like these development programs, they tend to hone in on your weaknesses, like Like we did, like an assessment together night. I, like I've always known my empathy isn't great. Oh, it never has been, and for years people were trying to get me to do better at that. And I actually married someone who's got amazing empathy. She could just look at you and feel you straight away. She knows exactly what you're thinking.
Speaker 1:I'm not like that. I have to ask loads of questions and even then I might not get it. Find it very hard to put myself in other people's shoes. But uh, but there's other. But there's other strengths I do well and that's a bit like a garden, like you're not gonna like an island. Lemons can grow given the right conditions, but it's a lot of work. I've actually got a lemon tree and it's actually growing. But I had one once and it didn't grow very well because I didn't have the right environment for it. You need to have the right environments to match strengths or adjust the environment or the type of things you're looking to achieve To align with the capabilities of what's there. As well you can I think it's probably better analogies out of it, but you can't get like elephants to climb trees and things like that.
Speaker 2:I love that one. You can get elephants to climb trees it actually can try, but it's not going to work. I don't think trees are going to be able to take it Now. I backed up the idea. It's the foundation. It's watering it to grow the weeds, weeding out the weeds and also Managing for rodents.
Speaker 2:Right Like the weeds and the rodents could be your mind, and the weeds maybe the weeds and then the rodents can be just people who are not Not helping your progress or actually detracting away from it. But I like the idea of a performance execution environment and also, I actually liked that one.
Speaker 1:You didn't have the watering right Fact for you. I actually didn't realize this. You can actually over water stuff and it does it damage? You don't want to do too much watering. It's just like a bit like Goldilocks and the porridge is she wants it to be just right.
Speaker 2:I like that idea the performance execution environment or an environment for growth. That's a mindset that I want to say, that I'm going to keep running with as I talk to my teams and as I think about how we can actually be more effective. One of the things you shared that Earlier in your career you didn't have the confidence or the capability. What were some of the failures that you had in the early years? And I know you talked about the empathy part of it and maybe just for the audience, this will talk a little bit more about the eqi definition of empathy. In a little bit you shared it was that you were always goal oriented and you wanted to get things done and you drove hard and I think that's from some of the conversations. But, yeah, what were some of those, those mistakes that you said that you looked at that like looking back at now you go, you know what? Yeah, this was actually not. This was a, an opportunity or a new plane for me to operate from. I needed to learn this so I can be better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I suppose maybe my, I hid my my like a confidence up in sense of entitlement, or maybe that was just the fact I was in my 20s anyway, Going to that a little bit, a sense of entitlement, because you see that a lot now teams are multi-generational.
Speaker 2:It's one of the growing up, so when you say a sense of entitlement, help a little bit with that.
Speaker 1:I remember I was really I would really go to Employee. I really love working there, love the teams. I felt I was learning loads and I'd actually qualified as an accountant. But whatever way the industry was at that time, they couldn't offer a salary rise to alignment market value because once you got your letters I think it was like a probably a 25 percent, maybe 30 percent increment, which was a lot for a young family. I was about to get married as well at the time. We were looking at our first mortgage, so it was a fairly big deal to get paid a bit more and so I actually ended up leaving the company. So I felt I was entitled to more, but obviously I hadn't made the case in the right way and so on. So I just moved company Without really thinking much about what I wanted to do and turn it to the worst career movement, my mind.
Speaker 1:I move for money. I hated the environment. I was working 60 70 hours a week and completely upset the ecology of my life. My Say I was even lucky I've got married at that stage and start having kids. So I was, but luckily people around me to help course correct after.
Speaker 1:But I think I started looking for a job after five or six months and rather than a sensible entitlement. I then looked into myself what value could I offer? What type of position do I need it next to get me to where I wanted to? And I met this amazing mentor who showed me this framework, a way of thinking about a career that started with the end in mind, which is great advice from Steven Covey start with the end mind. I get a really strong picture and get emotional about what type, which would get us hard for me, but get a picture about the type of life you want to live. And he started like with a career angle, but then I valid it over the time. I said no, not just about your careers, like what type of relationships you want to be having, saying three years time. Or like what type of where do you want to be living.
Speaker 1:And like what type of role are you doing, who you're talking with, what type of money you're making, what type of activities you doing outside of work and does work allow you the time to do the activities? Because you've got to make it realistic. And then you got to go back to your strengths and it's the next step. It's okay. What are your certifications and strengths in your networks and what are you doing now and you want to keep on doing, and then the gap in between is become solvable. It tells you what your next move might need to be.
Speaker 1:So then I was able to figure out what my next move was, and then all my moves since were very well thought through, purposeful, and it gives you that sort of sense of purpose and then I just felt I was able to take things through another level. Of course, I still have all the right answers, but I felt like I was making progress to sort something that was worthwhile. Yeah, and I've not only been able to do that for myself, but with the podcast and I did a bit of coaching along the way as well that's actually helped thousands and thousands of other people in their career and non career activities, and that's that's one of the things I definitely will look back on in my own all the years and say, yeah, if it hadn't been for those mistakes and those maybe not making the best career choices earlier on because I was getting entitled and so on, then then I probably wouldn't have stumbled across this and To been able to influence not only my own life, my family's life, but others as well, which has been yeah, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2:If you're enjoying the content. I hope it's not too much to ask that you like, follow and even share this podcast with someone who you think might find it beneficial. Let's jump right back into the show. I I really like that framework and maybe that's the accounting to me again, or the former athlete going back as framework. I think structure breeds discipline and discipline breeds performance right Discipline over time, but it's one of the things that that's striking me in.
Speaker 2:the framework is it's like things break down in that framework, it seems dynamic and it's okay to start with the end in mind, but it can be a very bumpy road.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the way we line up the model and maybe I could share some of the links to. I actually took people through it on the podcast because we have a Monday memo section on a Monday which, like, we just go to an idea that's emerging or whatever, or sharing a framework or something, and then, with the main interview done on the Thursday, but just on that one, the model itself is like linear. It's like a step up stairs. We take one step at a time that so you go upstairs and a safe and effective way, but the journey between is definitely not linear. I think a lot of your listeners could relate to that.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I think it's, and it may be one of those naive things, but we do expect it to be linear. So, talk to me about. In that framework, what are some of the challenges that you found over time?
Speaker 1:So you've lived this experience.
Speaker 2:You've lived the framework now for 20 years but, what have you found to be those times when the system would come off track?
Speaker 1:I know, yeah, and that's annoying because it's such a systematic mindset. It's about making a better environment or system actually, and how to interrelate. But know the one that immediately comes to mind because my wife, kati, never lets me forget it. On that first time implementing this way of thinking, I felt like I needed to get into a multinational type role, leadership wise, and I felt that the accounting was a really good qualification. But some US multinational companies they wouldn't recognize the qualification I have. It's like they they'd think you're like a bookkeeper. So I had to go and get like an MBA from a good university. So that was one of the things I had to achieve on it and the reason why my wife would never let me forget it because we had a young kid at the time I just was so on purpose from a career perspective that I just had my site set on. I'm going to achieve this and I got, when I got my MBA I would, a distinction. I put so much effort. So I think I got an A in every single module, except for one, which was marketing. I got a B but everything else was an A.
Speaker 1:I tended to be very disciplined. I had before that the symmetry or something probably not to the same level or standard to yourself, nigel, but I was a semi-professional athlete in a sport called rugby, played it to a very high standard, got injured and then but again, that was at the time I didn't have a lot of direction, but if I set my mind to something I would have achieved it. And it was the same with this framework out of this plan, and nothing was going to stop me getting there. And no, I achieved everything on it which was, which is really cool, but it was very career-orientated and that's where we came on. Stock was the stuff going on outside. I was neglecting my family, my young family at the time. It started off really well at the beginning. So that's why I've adapted the framework over time to include this idea of ecology and having how do you say, non-career perspectives in there as well.
Speaker 1:Coming back to these other areas of values, the things we value in life, so our own growth, our own learning, our relationships, the money or hobby side of the equation, like you don't really say live to work, you work to live. So I have to turn that around that way and so, yes, I've adapted the framework over time based on the hard lessons I had. But yeah, kati never forgets and she was had a really hard time because I was busy away either working and networking, learning with the NBA and driving towards that and she was left bringing up these kids pretty much on her own as a single mother. It was. We probably lost a couple years of our life together on that one and thankfully she had the patience to stay with me. Honest, she probably knew that I probably would have achieved a few of the things like the money side and the career side, and that's this.
Speaker 2:I don't think she would like hearing that.
Speaker 1:Adry, but I don't know like she's got good taste.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna say the ladies all think about athletes and here Katie is thinking about the accounted right. So just give her that that, give it those flowers. But it's interesting to like, and I don't when I say I don't like it's not celebrating it but I like the fact that you said you lost years of your life together and is that concept of and I know we chatted about it before but is that concept of being professional at certain things in your life and then amateur at other things?
Speaker 2:right, yeah, so it's like you give all right it's like you give all your effort to your job but then you come home and it's something that's totally different and I joke about. I think it's in the it was in the book by Marshall ghostman, triggers, and it was that idea again professional at work and being amateur at home, right, so you give patience at work, we give effort at work, and then we come home and we're like you know what I'm tired, so I'm not gonna give it. But you're the first person like who've talked about it, who shared it, as I lost years of life together with my kids and my wife by just focusing singly on me. And now there are sacrifices to make, but I don't think all the time that we can find. It doesn't always have to be on the fringes, it doesn't always have to be one or zero, there's some in between. Right, as life's not binary. I joke about it. I have friends who have one switch in life. It's just either on or off that there is some part of it in between.
Speaker 2:But what you've learned on that one right, because that's the family part, but you still have to manage you throughout that poor process and I like when you tied it into hobbies. What are some of those? What are some of those things? What are some of those lessons you learned about you and caring for you?
Speaker 1:yeah, that's a very good point actually. Yeah, cuz actually, just so you were talking there, nigel like an image came into my head of cars and gears and stuff and the only thing, friends, be on and off switches. There it's like I was thinking, yeah, like probably the better thing is gears, and maybe that's the way I approach this actually is. There are different segments that we can value, so obviously hobbies and ourselves is one for me, didn't. Even so, I'm so focused on the career. I wasn't even that focused on my own personal state, whether it be spiritual, mental or physical, so that really went by the wayside as well.
Speaker 1:They do say when you get married, you do tend to put on a few pounds, and I put on a lot actually. So I have to say I'm a bit probably in better shape, though mentally and physically. I didn't burn out even then or have a crisis or anything, but I suppose. Coming back to maybe the car as well, actually I'm very lucky at having good people around me and there was some people seeing where it was going and they started bringing some awareness to it and that was really helpful. I even look at what we do in finance and accounting as a bit like a like a car analogy. So I'd ask you, nigel, in your audience, if you were driving your car right along, say that, the freeway or the highway, how fast would you drive it if you didn't have a brake pedal? Like, how fast would you go? Would you go at a snail's place or would you go hell for leather, a hundred mile an hour?
Speaker 2:yes, that's an interesting one, right. You will actually probably go. It depends on the person, right, because there are some people who don't care about crashing.
Speaker 1:There are cases out there, yeah yeah, I know if you're actually would probably say how fast they could try it.
Speaker 1:But the point is you need a brake pedal on the car, because the brake pedal is actually the thing that allows you to go faster with confidence. Right, I think that's the same with these frameworks is is you need to have the people around you that act as that brake pedal that can help you have the confidence to go faster, that they've got your back. If they see something going out of kilter, they'll talk to you about it and I'll bring it your attention. They're not going to hide. And I suppose, look, we were fairly young in our relationship and that's how much.
Speaker 1:Katie was one of them, my wife who was calling it out, but I had other people as well that friends have been around for a while, and then I started appreciating the value of mentors more and had other people calling it out as well, and I keep saying my empathy wouldn't be very strong, so I couldn't see it in myself and that's why you need a network of people around you inside and outside of work as well, because you're still one whole person and I think I suppose in later years I've probably spent a bit more time now going back to church a bit more, not not like a regular go or anything, but I find it very good place to gather thoughts and just listen to just perspectives, like for our guides. And again, whatever your faith is your faith, but I've just found that something that that's work for me and actually on the statistical side. I saw this study because I've got most my kids now sort of teenagers or our elders in his 20s and it's the red something that actually a good indicator of a teenager's happiness is actually whether they still go to to church or service. So there is actually that benefit. As well as dragging the kids along, it's apparently for their well-being too. This is fine. It's about the activity.
Speaker 2:It's one of those things, that it's the little things that make you feel good about yourself, right, good about your journey, good about where you're at at that period of time. I want to make sure, though, that I do believe in that same evolution of the me and concept. I think that definitely there's the body, mind and spirit, and one of the things that I've grown to appreciate having a partner who's there to go along for that ride with you as a support system is also something that's very helpful to put in the break pedal on rejuvenating and getting going, and, in one way, shape form or another, I'm gonna go into it. Like. You touched on a parallel about gaining the weight, so my I gained about.
Speaker 2:From my athletic days to the time, maybe around the time, that I was married, I gained about 30 pounds, and you would laugh about this pivotal watershed moment in life, right? So my ex-wife and I redated and I'm tying it back to you, but I was smiling when you said it because I lived that experience and we dated off and on since college, so she knew me when I was in tip-top shape in my life, and then I think it was in the peak of the financial crisis. We were just married in the first year. And why I'm on this journey again and why I started was we didn't speak before going to work in the morning. But I'm getting dressed in the dark. One morning and I got from her, like I just heard. Aren't we just bursting out of our clothes?
Speaker 2:lovely, it took me about two days and I was working a lot of the time and I came back and I bought the P90X the videos back then, right two days later about 2 am in the morning, because it really stuck with me. But what came after was the best year. I started this in October and it was the best season, the best busy season. I had a KPMG, I worked out, I was in shape, we actually. I accomplished so much more and my team accomplished so much more in that time that's quite a demanding environment, but how did you find this point for that?
Speaker 2:no, but that's the thing, right. We make time for the things that we find are important, and I was saying that's just the physical aspect of it. There are other things that I was doing. It's it was 30 minutes a day, sometimes an hour a day, and I found the time to do that right and it introduced me to so many different things that those harsh words right, because that's how I found yoga, that's how I found working out again, it was like that pivotal part of life for me. So you gained weight and what was that turning point for you? That you would say this. You know, this is not the path that I should be on a different path because I like that from a behavioral change perspective what changed for you?
Speaker 1:That's yeah, on the physical side, that's a really I know I don't, I can't really put my finger on. I said actually no, I don't I know what it was actually. No, to come back to it, I had this really crazy notion I'd go back and try and play some rugby again. That's how I was it. I was yes, I'll eat a rugby is a bit of a social scene. Oh, I think we were living in England at the time. There's a bit of a social scene with it and I was doing a bit of coaching and some of the coaches said should go back clean again. It looks like you could. I used to again be fairly athletic.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of training involved with maintaining that physique.
Speaker 1:You know, I was like probably well, I was, I'm just under six foot Tall and I probably again, this would be quite big at the time, because rugby had just gone professional at the time when I was younger, and so it was probably about 220 pounds and I didn't have a pick of fat on me and I wouldn't have been an American footballer, but that would have been a big size for a rugby player.
Speaker 1:So that's what I was constantly comparing myself back to, which was completely unattainable, because that takes a lot of effort to stay in that shape I maintain that muscle mass and but when you're that shape and you can do things and like I always had there people said a great set of lungs on me I just keep going. That was because my, my, I used to a lot of athletics as a kid and I had a really good set of lungs on me, which was again a great benefit for last thing, a whole game and maintaining peak performance and Then but but you have this position in rugby called the prop, which is basically you're the fat guy and You're the third and weight of the scrubs. It's a bit like offensive lineman in. So I'd gone for maybe sail, a wide receiver or running back to offensive lineman essentially. And yes, you're pretty much good for nothing except for adding weight in certain situations.
Speaker 1:And I think that was enough for me is I need to start getting back into shape, because because yeah, so anyway I did and I just set on the journey.
Speaker 1:So I just started lifting weights again, which was a great way of burning, burning fat, and then I just started a bit of running again and and then, yeah, like even now and it's amazing when you feel like you've got a load off of your body, you can move a lot more.
Speaker 1:You got a lot more flexibility, you can do a lot more with a young family as well. It was great being able to do stuff with them and taking activities and not and not say no, I need to stand back, or anything like that. So I felt being physically fit, I was able to enjoy life more and probably had better endurance during tougher periods of work as well. And the amazing thing is, even now, to this day, I probably would train maybe five or six days a week, not for any specific outcome per se, but it's probably half an hour a day, and during the summer I do it first thing in the morning, and during the winter I start work early, but then I end an hour or two during the day to fit that maybe before lunch, and so always find time for it, whereas before I certainly neglected it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the clarity of mind and the confidence that comes with working out right. It's not the body creates its own energy, it's. It's so important that, if you are looking at your career as a journey, that you make sure that your body, which is the vehicle that's going to carry us through life, is actually in tip-top shape. Going back to that the car analogy it's interesting how, I think, sometimes we Neglect the fact that where we are from an energy perspective is a combination of our diet, sleep and exercise. Getting to you now, what lights you up? Or the mindset that you carry to keep you from. You're doing all the things. You have the structure in place. You're dynamically thinking about where you are and where you're going, but what's the mindset? And what's the mindset when you're meeting obstacles?
Speaker 1:All right, yeah, so yes, I'm actually as was the mindset with most things nowadays is is, I suppose, look, as a parent, it's I'm just constantly mindful that I want to be a good example. My kids so as much as I made lack empathy a lot. Probably that's the one thing I work really hard on. It's just trying to say, look, how would they perceive me or how would I want them to perceive me in terms of tackling things that face up. And it's even actually the same with the client of working recently, there was an obstacle came up, I think we were discussing about like forecast accuracy was a challenge and and again, for me it was just like how do I want to be perceived in this in terms of, and I started strengthening around areas like optimism and I had this belief that everything could be solved. Because I comes back to principles We've discussed in the past.
Speaker 1:Actually, nigel is, you can pretty much if you accept that measurement Is just the method of reducing uncertainty. He doesn't have to be perfect, 100%, complete or accurate, but it's just measurements in itself as a task is a way of reducing uncertainty. Then you can measure anything and then you can solve towards that and develop progress towards that. I'm the same with forecast accuracy. Actually. I always believe that you can solve it. Not only can you solve everything, can measure Everything. Everything is to some degree measurable and uncertainty can be reduced. Now it doesn't it's not eliminated entirely, but things can be. Actually, obstacles can be overcome, if not at least bit imperfectly. Oh, by the way, I don't know the answer to get around it. That's why I'm like I pull in people to help me understand how to get around it. That's a cool thing about being a leader I didn't appreciate when I was younger. I don't need to know all the answers, and it's really forced me to rely on smart people. Be not trying be the smartest person in the room Like I used to when I started out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that whole idea that if you're the smartest person in the room, you should change rooms.
Speaker 1:But it's a really good one, actually, cuz that's what should have happened sooner. My career, and even outside of my career as well I didn't think I was the best example I could be for my kids. Yeah, I hope, as they they remember more as they get older, that they can pull in the more positive experiences as part of my development in their development.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one of the proudest moments that you have Outside of the family and the regular finance works up and maybe this is maybe getting to what's in the podcast and why and, and the fact that it's still not monetized or anything else. But yeah, that was another.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we don't yeah, yeah, that's actually. That is actually about think, being able to make it. How do you say cuz, I suppose? Look, it's not monetized. But the way been able to cover the cost of the podcasting was was I wrote a book before that and it just somehow became a best seller, just seemed to spark people's imagination. So that funds essentially the podcast.
Speaker 1:Because it did write a second book, and I probably should say we wrote a second book because it was baby. It was basically the first 200 episodes. We just rose up a lot of the notes from them because it's full of great advice and I was expecting that one to be an amazing book, because Actually the first book was more my thoughts and then the second one was like all these really interesting people's thoughts. It's like how the heck is that not sell? As well as the first one probably comes back to my lack of marketing capability. That's that maybe I didn't give it a very good title or I thought we promoted it really well, but but yeah, so no, that that was nice moments, I would say, but that's what keeps the podcast going, but the product I think the like. If you'd asked me part of this moment, it probably would actually be becoming a dad and having a family Right, so we put that to one side.
Speaker 1:Outside of that, I think it's just have been able to connect with so many people in finance and understand their journeys and Learn from them their challenges and how they're overcoming them not just from interviewing people on the show that we save down this recording so other people's can listen into them have been listening into hundreds and hundreds of thousands of times. But is the it's really just making those connections and learning from the people outside as well that don't have them recorded, the people they're right in or just want to have a chat and maybe being able to help point them in the right direction. And the cool thing we're having all the podcasts there is I can point them to various episodes that were recorded, saying go and listen to this person Because they I think they had a similar challenge and this is how they over. So I'm not relying Under any pressure at all to pull on my own. I think it's that sort of service to the finance community.
Speaker 1:I felt like I've been able to give back, but I've got so much back in return in terms of that good feeling that's. I feel like I've made a difference there and not made any money out of it, but made some great connections and maybe I say maybe I say not made any money out of it. Actually, indirectly I probably have, because that's how I guess where those Declines for the new company and the connections and the potentials coming from is people really want us to see be successful with our new venture. So actually, maybe there is probably a lot of monetary value in it as well, but it's just been deferred some somehow. But yeah, I'm very proud of the community service on that one and I give them back to the community.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome, right, you don't necessarily always hear it and I think someone asked you know why the podcast idea this me Inc podcast? And it's that I've met so many cool people as I've traveled the world and people who have inspired me and helped me in so Many different ways. That helps with a different perspective that I can say, okay, how do I look at this or how do I deal that, deal with that, or even just in our conversation. I've never thought of measurement to reduce uncertainty, but there's always something that you can actually pull and gain from just conversations with people and.
Speaker 2:I think that's why I'm here. So the last part of the one of the last things we'd want to go into is you were one of the people who were cool enough to do an EQI assessment.
Speaker 1:And I know being cool should never go in the same set. I don't think, come on, I think.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you want to call it brave right, but not a lot of people, I was willing to give it a go. I appreciate it, yeah, and.
Speaker 1:I know you do exactly no, and I enjoy doing it together. I was just curious to see where it went. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's what happens a lot of times. I think individuals how do I say? You have that curiosity for information, for self-awareness that will move you forward, and I think that's what was actually amazing about it. So, actually, you were able to do it, or go through an assessment. We talked about your report. What were some of the things that you learned?
Speaker 1:I suppose, look, probably a lot of your listeners have done assessments over the time and it just gives them some indicators. That doesn't necessarily define who you are. Just as, look, based on how you've answered these questions, this is how we think you raise in these certain areas and for me, it probably confirmed a lot of what I felt I'd been developing towards, showed certain strengths in certain areas, particularly around independence and, I suppose, problem solving, and, if I remember, I keep coming back to empathy. Look, it just suggests to me that there's probably some credibility in the report because the fact that it scored me lowest on the air that I know I am wouldn't try and hide it.
Speaker 1:I probably made that point very clear. But then I think, but I think, okay, so it's just one step is doing the assessment. The second piece, which I think is probably more important than the assessment itself, is what are you going to do with it? Because there was some really wise person said information does not use this knowledge. But when you apply knowledge, that becomes wisdom. But get wise and put it into practice. And that's the bit I enjoyed, probably, and got most value out of it. I was like, okay, let's use this as an example of self-awareness, take the stake in the ground, where you are now. What are you going to do with that information? So it was just a nice little bit of an action plan. Again, those smart objectives I'm very much goal-oriented that way and again, breaking it down figure out what matters to you and then measure what matters, because what gets measured gets managed, that's our tagline from our software.
Speaker 1:That's how we did that, and so I liked that piece because it resonated very much with me. So it wasn't the finding the things, but it was taking those findings and doing something with them.
Speaker 2:I really liked that from just just as a reminder, and from the report, like one of the coolest things about you is that you have that positive mental attitude, so that internal self-talk that you'd have. It's positive. So let's say you'll get a problem and you're like I can solve it because I have this experience, I have the confidence, I have the capabilities to do it right, which moves you forward. But I think what empathy and when you say empathy is the very, very pedestrian way of saying it is that I need to feel what other people are feeling.
Speaker 2:And I think in your situation, and although you said you're not empathetic is that you operate in the numbers. It's what's in front of you and I think it's so. When you say you didn't have empathy, you're like I understand what you're saying, but this is what the numbers are showing me. So it's not that it's detached, right. It's not that it's this horrible thing. It's usually, yeah, I get it, but there's still this other thing that we need to deal with that's actually in front of us. Yeah, you give a coping mechanism.
Speaker 2:Say back to people you know what I mean Really cool tip for your audience.
Speaker 1:This is one Katie shared with me and it's really good if you're like in relationships as well. If you feel like you're on the verge of an argument, just say to someone you're probably right and they go away feeling validated. But again, I have zero empathy. I'm not felt a person's feeling, but I sense that there could be an argument. Just say you're probably right and then it's like ah, okay, I've been acknowledged.
Speaker 2:And it just completely diffuses the whole thing.
Speaker 1:You're not saying someone's right, you're just saying they're probably right, they could probably be wrong. It's the same flip of a coin, but it's just how it gets interpreted at the other end. So I'm really bad now because I've been given too many of these, these army mechanisms, so I'm like even disingenuous now. Seriously, I'm hopelessly at empathy. I have people who are much better than me. I've got a daughter and a wife who are just amazing, just like just you know they'll get exactly it's sent you when you're walking in, can deconstruct and tell you exactly how you're feeling just by looking at you. That good at it. They know I'm useless, so I have these coping mechanisms. Yeah, I like that too.
Speaker 2:But, again, I think it's one of those things where we they're they're strengths and their weaknesses parts of it. Right, they're things that will move you closer to and there are things that it would actually get you further away from. But at least in this perspective also, I think one of the coolest things just to remind you of is the optimism that you showed, fact that, again, the experiences that you have informs a an outlook on life of no, it's going to be okay, it's going to, I'm going to figure it out. So I think that is actually something that I think is really important. It's actually super helpful as well. But, no, I appreciate you taking the assessment. Also, the idea that turning knowledge or awareness into wisdom through practice is something that I'm actually going to pull with me as well.
Speaker 2:now, oh, we're doing that to each other. Right, I take it, I appreciate that. But as we stand up now, as just as we try to land it amazing conversation. But I wanted to talk about what lights you up now. One, what excites you now? And then, two, is there a through line in life that's feeding that motivation?
Speaker 1:Yeah, look, I'm a curious, a curious animal. I think you mentioned that word a minute ago. I'll go with it. I love learning stuff and I love applying.
Speaker 1:Maybe we need no whole conversation on this, but I've recently found my way into renewables and self sustainability and stuff like that. So I love loving outside of the work and the family, just just doing that, because I see my role as a bit of a provider as well, so I can tie things in together, a common thread to to, in effect, I think you get the biggest bang for your buck on all your sort of the things you value. So, again, if I can tie and doing things to help my family provide some sort of financial return as well, spend time with my family doing something that interests me that would align with a hobby and, like with the renewable energy, try not to electrocute myself as I'm playing around with all of these dangerous things. Danger is a good thing as well, actually, but a danger has to be with the adrenaline. It's like I find like a good way of how do you say, combining stuff and finding the interests, and that gives you the energy. So I think the fact that I've got this role as a provider, but I've also got this curiosity as well. I like that. I think that gives me really good purpose. So it's purposeful action we take. And then there was a cool team thinking about it. A cool team, I could say, is I picked it up when I was doing a bit of sales training again when I was starting out was, and I use this against overcome challenges as well as thinking about it is understanding what we do well.
Speaker 1:A lot of people skip that part. They're always trying to figure out what we can do better and optimize. So what do we do? Never lose sight of that, because that is how you do those well things. It really is a really good way of defining the value you're contributing. Now, never lose it. You can always fall back on this. You've all got something to fall back on. But then that better piece and helping people come together to do stuff better. I think that's been over the later years. I've got much better at that and I suppose that be the theme is. I love helping people understand what it is they do well and where there's opportunities to do better, and figuring out ways on how we can do things better, and that gives me a great kick.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's awesome Because, just so you know, I think you live those principles in that every time that I've reached out to you, you've been an amazing resource, always learn something and your energy always comes through how you living life and how you approaching it. I appreciate also the balance that you have in that you do speak to combined work life effectiveness If you're so, your family, your hobbies, your job that you're doing there's a passion line that that intertwines, or all those things. Andrew man, I so appreciate you taking the time to sit with me this morning and being flexible enough so that Tom said, hey, let's, we can actually do this. Let's fly to, let's fly to Ireland. So this was something that we plan to do over the phone, over zoom, and I thought that it would be the best thing possible to just do it in person.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I appreciate you and I will actually, in the show notes, will, have ways for individuals to connect with you. So, andrew, thank you so much. Thanks a million. I appreciate you and who you are and what you're trying to do.
Speaker 1:Likewise, feelings completely mutual. So, yeah, I look forward to more of our conversations over the years.
Speaker 2:To wrap up this first episode of the me and podcasts, I think the one theme that really resonated with me is the idea that there's a cost for everything that we do. So the analogy that Andrew made about him being solely focused on his career progression at the expense or the cost of losing years of time with his family and his wife and that's probably the first time I've heard professional articulated in that way and it's really stayed with me and also the idea of the break pedal and to go fast with confidence, you need to have people around to support you and to have through tellers there in your life. I think those are the things that stuck with me from this episode. Thank you so much for joining and I look forward to sharing the next episode with you in about two weeks. Again, appreciate your support and look forward to future interactions with you.
Speaker 2:Please comment. Let me know what you think, your thoughts are, the actualizations you have from listening to the show today. Take it care, eni. Me speaking with Luke from I was just around 20, 20 years old with his family, who are similar out of all of you who'd been isolated if I told you already. Thanks, stu.
